I was together with all the others on tower wars in between tlr and sav, becouse tlr was taken before i loged on and when sav was attacked i had to log off. Only thing that seperates me from those banned is lack of my presence at sav. There is absolutely no other link between all those banned and at same time distinction between me and them. Therfore it cannot be due to chat, becouse i was in it, it cannot be due to tlr becouse 90% of people weren't there, it cannot be to any other base before sav becouse i was there. It all boils down to sav, on which absolutely everything gone legal, not even a bug.

     They have chatlogs... BUT, because they're retarded, they don't know what speaking of joining an org for CT damage is. What THEY think is that you TRY to exploit, by doing the earlier known exploit to get instant 75% gas (three attacking orgs, winning places in 75%). When omni petitioned for TLR3, the GM ***** nubi followed you, cloaked. He saw you talk about forming damage teams for CT damage, and thinks you're trying to reproduce the 75% exploit on all those other sites you did after. Then, thinking he's right (which he's damn not), he hit... the BAN BAT!

     Thing is, even if every single FC employee suddenly realize that they made a mistake, and that we are all 100% innocent, what CAN they do about it? Gone to far already, if they retract now they will PROVE, irrevocably, for every single player that they are a bunch of incompetent morons.
     WE know that ofc, but the other players are all going for 'the man is always right' and 'no smoke without fire' explanations, and if FC retracts FC will be the laughing stock of the whole industry.

     My good name was drawn through the mud in the most public and humiliating manner possible, and my name was the most important single thing in the whole game to me, I cherished and treasured the standing and respect I had built up over 4 years of solid playing like no other thing.
     I know that sounds pathetic, but it is in fact no different than being barred from your tennis or golf club for a week. Why? You cheated. I did not! We SAW you cheat! We have evidence! Show me the evidence? NO!
How could you ever go back there to play? How could you look them in the eye, knowing that YOU know you are innocent, but THEY think you are a cheater?

     As far as I know, if you find a bug you can give it to an ARK on testlive (the BugHunters that is), but if you find an exploit you're NOT allowed to talk about it, nor submit it to Bugsy, to anyone but... The Exploit Team, or exploits@funcom.com. So honestly, it's very little chance they're going to post these "logs" on the AO forums, or give it to a "lowbie ARK/employee" like the support team.

     I just received answer from FC about bannings. This seems to be more information than people banned are getting:

     They still refusing to give ANY details to owners of banned/suspended accounts.

     Hmm... this is the first time I've seen them say that it can't be done unintentionally, but I've done it unintentionally... damn

     There was nothing out of the ordinary in these attacks, I still don't know what exploit? Is it the damage farming one? Is there another one? Nothing in chat was unusual either. Even more confused.

     I like the "conspiracy" comment. I can only take that to mean they are going by some chatlogs unless they have miraculously developed the ability to read minds. And I know for certain that I never referred to any exploit and neither did I see anyone else. Otherwise how can it possiby be known to them that people KNOWINGLY participated in an exploit?

[Re-posted from official forums before it was deleted]
Sil,
     The problem many of us have is that we know, many from first hand experience, that what you're saying simply isn't true. We have first hand accounts of people who have been suspended (banned - whatever you want to call it) and have subsequently had their accounts re-instated before the end of the suspension because a mistake was identified. I understand why, as a company man, you have to stay true to this line. This does little to placate those of us who, contrary to your rhetoric and attempts to reduce peoples first hand accounts of injustice at the hands of FC to little more that hearsay and non-relevant, don't believe the hype.
     Quote: Originally Posted by Silirrion : "I can assure you that the GMs only ban people when they are sure that the person was involved. Have witnessed it themselves and have seen the chatlogs that confirm it."
     I re-iterate what I've said above. We have had numerous people on this forum clearly and unabiguoulsy demonstrate this is not true. You are either saying that a number of people on this forum are liers (and have in some cases even fabricated chat logs) or that you are not wholly truthful with your statement. Personally, while I could accept that some level of eggageration and embilishment may have taken place, the fundamental truth that GM's have previously been proven to be wrong and have arbitraily banned without irrefutable evidence is FAR more compelling.
     Quote: Originally Posted by Silirrion "We do not lightly ban that many players in one go, let alone prominent ones. In this case in particular the GM was very sure that his investigation was thorough as he knew the implications of banning these individuals.
     So we've gone from a stance of "we don't care who, what or how everyone is treated the same" to "the GM understood the impact this would have so made a more thorough investigation as a result". I'm running the gauntlet now of being accused of twisting your words. What I'm trying to highlight is that because of the backlash of the community in this matter you are now saying anything to try and placate the situation - in this case implying that these individuals were treated with a greater level of investigation. I'm sorry but your actions are betraying the predicament FC are finding themselves in. This may be unintentional but it certainly smacks of ars e covering to me.
     Quote: Originally Posted by Silirrion: "On the rest we simply dont comment on the individual issues. Those involved are now in contact with the support team, but those details are between them an us, and I am sure there will be questions back and they will be answered, but that is between them and us and not a subject for the forums."
     Could I suggest that you actually discuss this with your support team. ***** has been kind enough to share with ****** on our private forums the discussion he's had with FC's support. I will quote a part of the email he was sent here so that the rest of the AO community can see the "contact" the FC support department are giving him:

     "We will not be reopening either of your accounts, ****** and *******, nor will we allow the continued play on the free account, ******. I am sorry.
This issue is now closed."

     ***** has added: "And they still refusing to give any details what sort of 'exploit' happens and how."

     This was as of 8pm last night and he's not posted as of yet today.
     You see Sil, you and FC may not want to discuss it but the people involved do. What I and others see is how you are actually dealing with these people as opposed to the public show and facade you put on here.
     Your words mean nothing when people are shown how FC are actually dealing with this.
     This stinks and should be exposed for the charade it clearly is.

     Bah not even an auto reply for me

     WTF! They accuse you of making it 75% to avoid defense. But then you went to next site and opened it up again. How the hell does that make sense?

     Ouch...

     Unfortunately my confidence in FC staff, and Sillirion in particular with his posting on LoR this week, each post like a slap in the face, is irrevocably broken.
     The professional thing to do would have been to refuse comment and say they were looking into it to stall and buy time to communicate with the people suspended. We should have been fully informed and had it made clear why we were suspended first. Something they can't do as they don't have unequivacal proof themselves, despite everything they're saying, and a lot of them, from ***** to ***** are being very careful not to state they have seen these chat logs. Even Sil said the GM 'checked' with himself and someone else - not that he actually showed them the 'logs' I believe, big difference. (This was when he contradicted himself as ***** pointed out and suddenly the GM was 'aware' of the impact it would have, from the prior position that it didn't matter who we were).

     This is the latest response I got. It now gives a time in which this alleged exploit took place. And all they should have to do is check server log to see that I was not online nor were a few others I know **** and **** for sure. Yet they seem to refuse to look into that online time or we would be cleared for sure:

     Since when 'org hopping' is exploit?

     I talked with ***** after I returned from my ban and he reassured me that switching orgs to win damage for an org wasnt considered an exploit.

     Rofl finally

     Like I said to ***** yesterday, I believe the GM that witnessed ORG swapping believes that this is the direct reason for 75% gas in TLR. ALL other facts go out the window... Why? Because he really doesn't understand NW mechanics, and tbh I don't think a single FC employee knows more about the mechanics of NW more then the players who were suspended/banned. Perhaps they are intimidated by that fact, and stand by thier word so they do not look like complete idiots within the community and the industry. My 2 cents.

     This is what what i am thinking as well. Since it is well known that most GM'sters/ark's dont know more than average player it is easy to petition something this complex and when he see's smoke he thinks there must be fire and just uses ban stick according what he has been told by petitioners and what he has seen.

     This would make sense with their insistance there are chat logs to prove the 'conspiracy' as a few times the call for twinks to temp join the org was made. That I did see, and hold my hands up to (seeing it in chat - didn't actually org hop, but was 'in on it').

     I don't know what else to say to these people. I was most definately not online at the longest road base and only logged minutes before we hit SAV which is the only attack I had been involved in and I have never given my info to let anyone else log my accts ever.

     It must mean that the SAV tower was where the 'exploit' happened, not TLR.

     I believe someone petitioned TL3 going 75% gas and no GM/ARK was there to witness it. Until they finally got around to answering the petition and deciding to watch us, it was hours later when we hit SaV and after the base was destroyed, the site went 75% -- not yet planted -- but the GM was incompetent and doesnt know you need to place a control tower for it to go 25%. And we then later placed the CT, but it was too late cause the GM had already noted everyone who was in on that site and justified the bans.

     FC is confusing the KNOWN exploit that involves org damage with the ORG swapping. I believe that THEY believe that the two are one of the same... and I bet all their chatlogs of such exploit will show several clanners discussing and organizing the org swapping. They really believe they have caught some huge master plan to make bases 75%. I almost feel sorry for FC, and how ignorant they are of their own game.

     and if they check all gimpybot talks, they should see my telling to people not move twinks out of sav because need 1h defence after place...
so yes, FC staff fully incompetent and have no idea hows tower wars should work.

     I think ***** and ***** have it, it was SAV, and it's kneejerk incompetance from a GM who doesn't understand the mechanics, along with a petitioning Omni I expect (***** I would think, who even posted in the forums that 'attempting to exploit but failing still means the intention is there')
     I think my next mail will include a detailed explination of ct placing. The SAV base was 100% legit unless there's some feature I have no knowledge of and is incredibly subtle (like, if 4 people are in gas, and only two are from the same org and a fifth person from the org zones into camelot as the ct blows wearing a ql176 sekutek helm), other than a couple twinks changing org, which we have been told several times is not an exploit.

     Now that I think about it, there is a huuuuge time in which this exploit could have happened, its perfectly reasonable to ask when it occured. It makes you look like idiots when you say your not online (talking about tlr) and when FC thinks your referring to SAV. FC then goes to check if you were online during SAV and ofcourse you were.

     They say around 3am, but don't know wich timezone... it could help to know the base they are talking about...

     I remember reading that support is on EDT. This is GMT-5. 3 AM = 9AM GMT, around when the TRL site when down. Need to clarify that you were NOT online for TLR, and WERE online for SAV. OF COURSE when you were actually banned you were online. However, you were not online at the time of the alleged exploit.

     I cant believe 30 pages of posts and we still dont know whether they think TLR was exploited or SaV. I'm sticking with SaV.

     uuuhm so they banned you because land went 75% BEFORE you placed CT? what a dumb GM

     no... after we placed CT base goes 75%... but it was before 20 mins timer left

     No *****, they banned you because SAV went 75% like every site after you killed CT. Haha I cannot believe how dumb that is. Its not about the 75% in TLR.

     Rofl

     Lmao... Must be it

     Omg

     You attack TLR, place, site goes 75%, omnis petition, ARKs and GMs take 3 hours as usual, so then he watches you at SAV, listens to your 'devious' org switching tactics, you kill CT, site goes 75% before placing as always, dumb GM says: "75% again, gotcha!" baaannn

     oh my..I can't stop laughing.

     If... this... is.. it.. shoot... me... now...
     But on a more serious note, this explains why ***** was banned before the CT was placed... it explains why everyone was online at the time. (can you guys verify that you were online on those toons when sav was going down?) Seems to be the only theory that fits all evidence.
     Also explains why this is 100% reproducable, and not a 'random' bug.

     can't believe we're having to guess this shiz.

     lol man this is to funny someone should post to lor for sure

     That would be -THE- loss of face for FC...

     still no answer...

     I actually take this wait as a sign you maybe right... it doesn't take this long to think of a standard corporate response to fob you off. Maybe he's covering himself in tin foil and hiding under his desk?

     Looks like you've got the answer. If they admit to this it would be so so sweet. I'm 100% certain they'll cover this up though. I'm banned from the forums by the way. I get the feeling they didn't like some of the questions I asked...